What is the New IFB?

The so-called “New IFB” is just that – a new group teaching new doctrines. It is not what Independent, Fundamental Baptist Churches have been teaching historically. Instead, this group teaches a specific set of doctrines based on the teachings of the founder of the movement, Steven L. Anderson.

Anderson planted Faithful Word Baptist Church on December 25, 2005. In the years since, through an effective social media presence, including dozens of youtube pages, he has made his teachings very public. He received national media attention in 2009 after a video of him stating from his pulpit that he prays for Barack Obama to die was released.

Because of the public nature of his ministry, most of his teaching is available to view on YouTube. Some of his specific differences from Independent Fundamental Baptists make the hallmarks of the “New IFB” movement.

  1. Independent, Fundamental Baptists have historically believed in the rapture preceding the tribulation,  (pre-trib), but New IFB preachers teach that the rapture is after 3 ½ years of tribulation (Pre-wrath or mid-trib)
  2. Independent, Fundamental Baptists have historically held to a dispensational view of scripture, but New IFB preachers reject this. As a result, they tend to bring commands God gave to Israel in the Old Testament and make them binding upon the New Testament Church. (One such command is that sodomites should be put to death)
  3. Independent, Fundamental Baptists have historically taught that Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone, but the New IFB movement constantly declares that people who disbelieve their views of scripture are not saved (regardless of whether they trusted in Christ), therefore adding works to salvation. New IFB preachers also preach that the person leading you to Christ must themselves be saved, or you cannot be, and that a soulwinner must lead you to Christ – you cannot be saved by reading the Bible alone.
  4. Independent, Fundamental Baptists have historically taught that repentance is an essential part of faith that brings salvation, but the New IFB movement rejects the teaching of salvation repentance.
  5. Independent, Fundamental Baptists have historically preached that all men can be saved, but the New IFB teaches that those who are involved in sodomy cannot be saved, and that instead we should pray for them to die and go to hell. New IFB pastors celebrate if a vigilante shooter kills sodomites.
  6. Independent, Fundamental Baptists have historically taught that the Jews and Israel play important roles in Eschatology, but the New IFB movement rejects this, preaching anti-Israel sermons and denying the holocaust.
  7. Independent, Fundamental Baptists have historically taught that when a person is saved, it produces a change in action, as they are a new creature. The New IFB says that people shouldn’t be expected to change after salvation
  8. Independent, Fundamental Baptists have historically taught that the name “Word of God” referring to Christ does not mean that Christ is literally the Bible or that the Bible is God, but the New IFB believes that the Bible is literally God.

In addition to these major errors, “New IFB” pastors, following the example of their leader, Steven Anderson, tend to bring conspiratorial elements into their preaching and practice, commonly supporting 9/11 conspiracies, anti-flouridation, anti-vaccination, and other strange movements.

New IFB teaching includes strange new positions such as that police should not exist, Men should not be gynecologists, Men should urinate in certain ways, Bible College is unscriptural etc.

Because of these errors, it is apparent that the “New IFB” is not IFB at all, and should be rejected by true Bible believers.

Post Author: Joshua Lindsey

My name is Joshua Lindsey. I live in Minnesota, and with my wife and baby daughter am a faithful member of my local independent Baptist Church. I have taught Sunday School classes and children’s classes, and also had the opportunity to preach at several churches. I teach Bible college classes on the Pentateuch, Atheism and Faith, Comparative Denominations, Bible Preservation (A defense of the underlying texts of the KJV), Bible Geography and Customs, Church Graphic Design, and some others. My father is an Independent Baptist Pastor in Wisconsin, and I grew up in a home full of love for the Lord. My parents raised me in the Bible, and are faithful to this day in witnessing and discipling. Although I was constantly immersed in biblical teaching and preaching, I did not personally believe in Jesus as described in John 3:16 until my freshman year in Bible college. In the many years since then, I have grown in grace and the Lord has given me opportunity to serve him in ministry. Among other ministries, I run my church’s print shop and participate in door-to-door evangelism. In doctrine, I affirm the truth that has been passed down from church to church since the time of Christ. I affirm the deity of Christ, his death, burial, and bodily resurrection, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, the Trinity, the virgin birth, the inerrancy and infallibility of the scriptures, the inspiration and preservation of the scriptures, the imminent return of Christ and his future literal millennial reign. I accept the canonicity of the 66 books of scripture, I believe that God commands all men to repent, that Christ draws all men to himself, that any person can believe and be saved. I believe salvation cannot be forfeited or taken away. I believe Christ’s command to go to all the world and preach the Gospel is still applicable to us today. I believe in a future literal judgment seat of Christ and a Great white throne judgment. I believe that no person will enter heaven except through Jesus Christ. I reject all false religions: Islam, Judaism, new Age, etc. I reject the teaching that God elects some men to damnation, giving them no chance to be saved. I reject the idea that God did not preserve his words and that recent manuscript discoveries provide us with a more accurate Bible that was not available to past generations of Christians. I reject the concept of a universal church. I reject the idea that Baptism plays a part in salvation. I believe many things additionally not listed here. My views align with the scripture and with the beliefs that faithful churches have held since the time of Christ, and have held under the title of “Baptist” for many centuries now.

35 thoughts on “What is the New IFB?

    Shedrock

    (July 4, 2018 - 11:02 pm)

    Reprobate

    Refundamental Joe

    (July 15, 2018 - 5:50 pm)

    This is a really great website. Consistently done, straightforward, concise. Thank you for doing the work on this.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (July 28, 2018 - 5:08 pm)

      Thanks Joe. Feel free to let me know if you find any videos that need to show up here. Also feel free to join our email list on the right hand side or subscribe on youtube if you’re interested to be notified about new posts.

      God Bless

    Eli Lambert

    (July 23, 2018 - 5:12 am)

    Does it bother you that much of your article is inaccurate? No I suppose it wouldn’t matter to you whether you’re reporting truth.
    What about our sincere desire to fellowship with other independent Fundamental Baptists, despite differences in beliefs. As long as we don’t believe differently on the Gospel.
    I notice the emphasis on Soulwinning isn’t mentioned. You don’t think a desire to see people saved matters. That says a lot about you.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (July 23, 2018 - 1:01 pm)

      Eli, Why should I be concerned to answer you as if your questions are legitimate, when you don’t give the same allowance to me? Regardless, I disagree. The New IFB preaches a false gospel. They preach that a person cannot get saved by reading God’s words, that another person must be involved who is a believer. They preach that you cannot be saved from reading any Bible version other than the KJV. This false teaching would mean that many saved people are actually called unsaved by the New IFB. They teach that we should condemn people to hell, pray for them to die, and not witness to them, because they think that we can know for sure that God is done with them. I say no to that. I will witness to people, and not quench the desire to do proper soulwinning, as the New IFB does.

    Matt Powell

    (August 28, 2018 - 9:18 am)

    Please re-think attacking us – we are a people who are dedicated to reaching the lost. We are seeing thousands of people saved – why don’t you attack an actual cult instead of people who believe in Hard preaching and soulwinnning?

      Joshua Lindsey

      (August 28, 2018 - 9:25 am)

      Your movement is leading people in false professions. Baptists are being sucked into your false teaching by thinking you preach something historical when you do not. It’s a clever bait-and-switch, but what you are teaching is a false gospel.

      The Bible says of the gospel “for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
      The New IFB says, no, you must also have a soul winner. A person can’t get saved from the Bible alone. Your movement says “we know who cannot believe and we hope they go to hell.” It’s no better than limited atonement. At least the Calvinists claim that they can’t know who is elect so they will witness to everyone. The New IFB arbitrarily calls people reprobate and says they cannot get saved. I have a separate website where I expose cults and other false teaching. But I’d be remiss to not also have this site to expose the error of the New IFB.

    Mike

    (August 31, 2018 - 3:24 pm)

    You people are just pissed off that your pet (false) doctrines on the pre trib rapture and Zionism are being proven false by steven Anderson and other like minded preachers. The new IFB is growing and growing and more people are waking up to the false dispensational nonsense churned out by these baptist churches who simply can’t discern what the scripture says.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (August 31, 2018 - 3:45 pm)

      His doctrines are so straigtforwardly wrong that all the videos I have posted here so far just show that he is preaching them. 99% of Baptists will mark and avoid the false doctrine preached by the New IFB if they simply know what is going on.

      There is definitely a cap to the new IFB. Now that they are being exposed and people don’t think they are just Baptists, their false doctrines are getting revealed.

    Travis

    (September 6, 2018 - 9:10 am)

    It seems you think these men are seducers because they preach their faith with confidence, but do you not do the same? They aren’t against you unless your doctrine is your idol. If what they believe is wrong, then at least have enough faith in God and your people to overcome. Your fight against these men is vain and unscriptural. No one with the anointing needs this (1 John 2:26-27).

      Joshua Lindsey

      (September 6, 2018 - 9:14 am)

      Travis, if you want your comments to be taken seriously, you need to speak truth. I would answer you with full confidence, but when you speak as a fool, I follow the scripture and don’t answer you according to your folly. You don’t know about what I preach. You don’t know me, I don’t know you. You cannot make these statements about what I supposedly don’t preach, because you do not know.

    Sandie

    (September 9, 2018 - 7:47 pm)

    You might want to listen to Jack Hyles sermons. He most certainly preaches that it’s too late for some.
    https://youtu.be/QOC1BHTEhew

    Henry

    (October 7, 2018 - 1:31 am)

    I appreciate you taking the time to expose the cult of Andersonism despite the threats of violence to the prayers of death toward you and your family that inevitably results from taking such a stand.

    John

    (October 26, 2018 - 2:32 am)

    Joshua Lindsey
    Sir, you are horribly mistaken about what we, the New IFB believes.

    1. We believe the reprobate doctrine. A person can reject God so many times, that God gives them up and gives them over to a reprobate mind. They have been rejected for rejecting God. (Romans 1) Pharaoh hardened his heart, Pharaoh hardened his heart, Pharaoh hardened his heart. God hardened Pharaohs heart. Anyone who puts 100% of their faith in the blood of Jesus Christ alone for salvation shall be saved. A reprobate will never do this. They hardened their heart so much and rejected God so many times, GOD GAVE THEM OVER TO A REPROBATE MIND.

    2. We believe the word repent means to turn away. Repent does not mean turn from sin. God repented more times than anyone else in the entire Bible. Pastor Anderson has explained himself in numerous sermons. Repent means to turn from unbelief toward belief. Either your teaching to repent from sin to be saved (which is hardcore works salvation that no Independent Fundamental Baptist teach) or your just completely confused about what we believe.

    3. We believe that a person gets saved by hearing the word of God. Jesus didn’t command us to pass out bibles and tracts and just walk away. He commanded us to preach the word to every creature. We get this doctrine from the Bible:

    Romans 10:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
    14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    4. Show me ONE verse about Bible college in the Bible. Show me where it says I should pay someone to teach me the word of God.

    5. The biblical church was clearly family integrated, meaning CHILDREN ATTEND THE SERVICES. Paul was clearly speaking to children in this passage, who would be present when the letter was read to the congregation.

    Ephesians Chapter 6
    1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
    2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;)
    3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
    4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

    6. Do your research before you openly attack people. We are winning souls and preaching FAITH ALONE FOR SALVATION BY THE SHEDDING OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST THAT HE PAID FOR ALL OUR SINS, PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE, AS THE ONLY WAY INTO HEAVEN. PERIOD. FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. THERE IS NONE THAT DOETH GOOD, NO NOT ONE. IF WE SAY WE HAVE NO SIN WE DECIEVE OURSELVES AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN US.

    7. Take down this website immediately and find a better cause for your time instead of attacking fellow brothers and sisters.

    Good day sir. Will be praying for you.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 26, 2018 - 7:21 am)

      I’m not mistaken. I know what you teach.

      1 – I don’t disagree with there being reprobates. But the New IFB claims that they know who the reprobates are, and are then justified in ignoring whole groups of people and praying for them to go to hell instead of witnessing to them. The New IFB is opposed to soulwinning in this way. They reject soulwinning and reaching out to sodomites, for example.

      2 – You claim “Repent means to turn from unbelief toward belief.” So if God repents more than anyone else in the Bible, does it mean God is contantly changing from unbelief to belief? No. Your definition is wrong. Repent means to change one’s mind. Repentance toward God is Changing one’s mind about God. Repentance about sin means to change our mind about sin. Context determines what the repentance is talking about.

      3 – What you say here is true. But the New IFB adds to the scripture and says that a person cannot be saved by hearing the word of God. They must have a saved soulwinner too. They add to salvation. Salvation is not of God in the New IFB concept. God cannot save alone – he needs man to do the saving.

      4 – You must have a strange view of church authority. Can a church not do anything except what is listed in scripture? Where is your scriptural justification for having a church building? Where is the scriptural justification for having a production company make trading cards and paying to buy them? Where is the justification in the Bible for producing documentaries? The answer is that so long as something is part of fulfilling the Great Commission, then we may do it.

      5- This is just another church authority issue. You think a church cannot create a service where only certain people attend. But they can. Churches can have Bible studies, they can have Sunday Schools, they can have women’s meetings, etc. The churches were also very obviously meeting only in houses. I don’t believe we must meet in houses, but in your logic, the church doesn’t have the authority to meet in a building.

      6- Don’t worry, I have done enough research to see past the facade the New IFB has of spirituality and service to God. Now I can see the pride, the manipulation, the blatant false doctrine, and the fact the the New IFB is just another one of Satan’s tools to attack biblical churches.

      You say the New IFB preaches this:
      FAITH ALONE FOR SALVATION BY THE SHEDDING OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST THAT HE PAID FOR ALL OUR SINS, PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE, AS THE ONLY WAY INTO HEAVEN. PERIOD.

      But they actually preach this:
      FAITH ALONE FOR SALVATION BY THE SHEDDING OF THE BLOOD OF THE BIBLE WHO IS JESUS CHRIST AND A PERSON BEING PRESENT WHO IS SAVED AND HOPEFULLY THEY AREN’T LATER FOUND NOT TO BE SAVED BECAUSE THEN YOU AREN’T SAVED EITHER THAT HE PAID FOR ALL OUR SINS, PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE, AND THEN WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS EVEN THOUGH HE TOLD THE THIEF ON THE CROSS HE WOULD BE IN PARADISE THAT DAY AS THE ONLY WAY INTO HEAVEN, UNLESS YOU ARE HOMOSEXUAL OR THE NEW IFB CALLS YOU A REPROBATE. PERIOD.

      7. Although I believe and preach a true Gospel, I have frequently been called a “reprobate” by those in the New IFB. This is because they actually don’t believe in salvation by faith, but a salvation that they can retract from any person who gets in the way of their pride. It probably won’t be long, if our conversation continues, before you also decide to retract my salvation as well.

    John

    (October 26, 2018 - 10:27 am)

    Joshua Lindsey
    1. We do not claim to know who all reprobates are. Steven Anderson clearly teaches to not go around calling everyone reprobates. Those that do are in error. But God clearly gives us a hint of who reprobates are in Romans 1. Example, an apple tree produces apples leading us to the conclusion it is an apple tree. Let’s look at some of the fruit a reprobate produces according to the Bible.
    Romans 1
    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

    28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

    2. I think you misunderstood my explanation of repent. Obviously God can’t repent from unbelief to belief. I was trying to explain that it means turn away or like you said change of mind. When I said turn from unbelief to belief I was speaking of some of Paul’s teachings found in his letters. My apologies for not being specific. Also, show me one verse in the Bible that says “repent of your sins” for salvation.

    3. New IFB believes that an unsaved person is incapable of being saved just by reading the Bible as they still have the veil over their face and are unable to understand the faith alone concept written in the Bible since they have not put their faith alone in Jesus Christ and be saved. I’ve never met anyone who said they were just saved by reading the Bible and with no help from another saved person. Not once in all my years. Coincidence? Or is the Bible ringing true once again?

    2 Corinthians 3
    14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

    15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

    16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

    I used a verse earlier showing Paul asking the question, how can they believe in whom they have not heard, how can they hear without a preacher, how shall they preach unless they be sent? (I’m paraphrasing by the way) Paul isn’t just blowing hot air here. He means what he says. He’s saying how is it possible to be saved unless a preacher preaches and unless they be sent?

    4. We clearly differ on the Bible college thing. I know how much Bible college means to the Old IFB as I actually temporarily attend an Old IFB Church. A saved person can learn plenty of Bible just by going to Church and fellowshipping. We do not believe man needs to pay for Biblical knowledge. I’ll have to look into the trading card thing, never heard of it, If this is true then I fully disagree but I highly doubt the pastors are responsible for selling trading cards. Could be just a member of New IFB wrongly doing so. As for Documentaries, the Bible does teach in many places to teach one another, (for free) so I don’t see anything wrong with teaching as long as you use Bible to back it up. But when I went to Faithful Word LA ALL documentaries, Bibles, music CDs were free on the back shelf for anyone to grab.

    5. I completely agree that churches can have bible studies and women’s meetings etc. I was merely disagreeing with children being removed from the preaching service as Paul clearly is speaking to children in the verse I showed you in my previous post. Children are smarter than people give them credit for. Why remove them from the congregation and give them a dumbed down version of Bible just because they are children. Especially in the early years when they are soaking up information like a sponge. Also I do believe that there were actual church buildings in the Bible, not houses. We can also verify this with archeological evidence that there were church buildings in Rome, Corinth, Galatia etc. In acts when 3000 people were added to the church, did they all fit in someone’s house? That would be silly. Here’s the verses I have to show there was buildings built.

    Ephesians 2:19-22 King James Version (KJV)

    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

    22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    We clearly see a building was built, this was the church. We also see the distinction between the physical church and the bodily temple for the habitation of the Holy Ghost in these verses. Note verse 22 he says “also”. Referring to two seperate temples. The Church building and the human Body.

    6. I find this part of your beliefs HIGHLY unreasonable and unrealistic. How can an unsaved person get someone saved?

    7. Anyone who believes it’s faith alone and not of your own works or righteousness to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, and there’s nothing you can do to lose your salvation because it is the free gift of everlasting life paid for by the innocent blood shed by Jesus Christ our Lord, then my brother, you are saved. That’s the bottom line. I must add, I do apologize for my New IFB brothers if they loosely throw the word reprobate around like a baseball thus showing their lack of knowledge on the subject. I believe God will deal with them as he sees fit.

    God Bless.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 26, 2018 - 11:22 am)

      1. We do not claim to know who all reprobates are. Steven Anderson clearly teaches to not go around calling everyone reprobates. Those that do are in error.

      Steven Anderson prayed for Obama to die and go to hell. We should be praying and witnessing to him – trying to win his soul. The New IFB says they know he is reprobate. They don’t care about soulwinning for him.

      But God clearly gives us a hint of who reprobates are in Romans 1.

      As for Romans 1, I have seen all of the videos, but it is obvious that it nowhere states that all sodomites are reprobate. In fact, it puts sodomy before reprobation.

      I think you misunderstood my explanation of repent. Obviously God can’t repent from unbelief to belief. I was trying to explain that it means turn away or like you said change of mind. When I said turn from unbelief to belief I was speaking of some of Paul’s teachings found in his letters. My apologies for not being specific. Also, show me one verse in the Bible that says “repent of your sins” for salvation.

      You are demanding of me what you cannot provide for yourself. That is called hypocrisy. Let me show you. I assume you admit that repentance (whatever it means) is something to be preached to unbelievers, as Jesus and Paul did?

      Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
      ()

      And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
      ()

      The next step is determining what “repent” means, as it relates to changing ones mind. What were they asking these people to repent about? You ask me to have a verse that says “repent of your sins.” I ask you then to show me a verse that says “repent of your unbelief” In fact , none of the times the word “Unbelief” is used in the gospels does it even have anything to do with salvation.

      So do we not need to recognize that we are sinners to be saved, in your view? There can be a “salvation” without any understanding of why we are even needing to be saved?

      New IFB believes that an unsaved person is incapable of being saved just by reading the Bible as they still have the veil over their face and are unable to understand the faith alone concept written in the Bible since they have not put their faith alone in Jesus Christ and be saved. I’ve never met anyone who said they were just saved by reading the Bible and with no help from another saved person. Not once in all my years. Coincidence? Or is the Bible ringing true once again?

      You deny : For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
      In your view the Bible doesn’t have the power to save, we need to have human effort to do that. It’s a works salvation. Some person must go do works (soulwinning) or else none will be saved.

      4. We clearly differ on the Bible college thing. I know how much Bible college means to the Old IFB as I actually temporarily attend an Old IFB Church. A saved person can learn plenty of Bible just by going to Church and fellowshipping. We do not believe man needs to pay for Biblical knowledge.

      You are making a straw man. Nobody says that a person needs to pay to get biblical knowledge. I attended a free Bible college, personally, and there are plenty of them. But then you say that if a person wants to share their biblical knowledge as a full-time job, and if people are willing to support them for that (which is all voluntary of course, you can choose not to attend any Bible college) that they should be prohibited from doing so. That’s wrong.

      I’ll have to look into the trading card thing, never heard of it, If this is true then I fully disagree but I highly doubt the pastors are responsible for selling trading cards. Could be just a member of New IFB wrongly doing so.

      Paul Wittenberger makes and sells them, Solomon Anderson, the pastor’s son is featured in the videos promoting them. Clearly Anderson is in on the whole thing. Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpLrR6oLTWA

      As for Documentaries, the Bible does teach in many places to teach one another, (for free) so I don’t see anything wrong with teaching as long as you use Bible to back it up. But when I went to Faithful Word LA ALL documentaries, Bibles, music CDs were free on the back shelf for anyone to grab.

      Yes, but they are also being sold. Again, there are plenty of ways to get Bile college for free, but it’s fine to also have non-free ones. All the documentaries are also being sold on FTW’s website, which is no different from the New IFB. FTW really IS the New IFB at this point.

      I completely agree that churches can have bible studies and women’s meetings etc. I was merely disagreeing with children being removed from the preaching service as Paul clearly is speaking to children in the verse I showed you in my previous post.

      The New IFB is against Sunday School. This is not removing children from the service, Sunday School was actually an additional service.

      Why remove them from the congregation and give them a dumbed down version of Bible just because they are children.

      Not every church dumbs things down. That is your assumption. You shouldn’t attack the whole based on a part.

      We clearly see a building was built, this was the church. We also see the distinction between the physical church and the bodily temple for the habitation of the Holy Ghost in these verses. Note verse 22 he says “also”. Referring to two seperate temples. The Church building and the human Body.

      Actually, you are taking something that is clearly not talking about a physical building. Else the physical foundation is the apostles and prophets. Ouch! Also, I hope that your Lord’s supper service doesn’t have multiple cups, because the New Testament always refers to a singular cup for the entire group. Again, I don’t think that is wrong to change, but if you are to be consistent, you can’t allow any worship practices not condoned in the New Testament.

      6. I find this part of your beliefs HIGHLY unreasonable and unrealistic. How can an unsaved person get someone saved?

      Ah, but there you reveal your man-based-salvation. Of course an unsaved person cannot get someone saved. But neither can a saved person. God is the one who gets people saved. Any person, saved or unsaved, can spread the gospel. In fact, before being revealed as a heretic on the trinity, Garrett Kirchway witnessed a whole lot. If he gave the gospel, which he did, the power of God could save the hearers. You make it about the man. But it’s actually about God.

      Anyone who believes it’s faith alone and not of your own works or righteousness to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, and there’s nothing you can do to lose your salvation because it is the free gift of everlasting life paid for by the innocent blood shed by Jesus Christ our Lord, then my brother, you are saved. That’s the bottom line. I must add, I do apologize for my New IFB brothers if they loosely throw the word reprobate around like a baseball thus showing their lack of knowledge on the subject. I believe God will deal with them as he sees fit.

      Thanks for addressing the arguments. I believe you are wrong, but I hope you take sincerely what I present. I appreciate you recognizing true salvation. Unfortunately the New IFB does a lot of lip service to it, but then also comes in hard with works on the back end. If you leave the New IFB because you are upset about something, pastors and people alike will condemn you as unsaved. And nobody preaches against that.

    John

    (October 26, 2018 - 12:24 pm)

    Your comments further expose how little you know about our beliefs. We do not believe God isnt the one who does the saving. We just believe we are his vessels to preach the Gospel.

    2 Corinthians 4:7 King James Version (KJV)

    7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

    I do believe we need to recognize we are sinners to be saved. I also believe we need to recognize we all deserve Hell. Otherwise why do we need a Savior right? But recognizing we are sinners and turning from all sin to be saved is completely different. Turning from sin to be saved is TOTAL works salvation as you are trying to gain entry to Heaven by your righteousness. It’s good to follow the commandments and turn from sin but the fact remains we come short everyday. The thought of foolishness is a sin. All liars deserve Hell. We can never earn our way into Heaven based on our turning from sin. Which is why we needed a savior to pay for our sin as an atonement for our sin.

    Romans 4:5 King James Version (KJV)

    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Titus 3:5 King James Version (KJV)

    5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    Romans 3:28 King James Version (KJV)

    28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    Romans 3:20-31 King James Version (KJV)

    20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    It’s pretty clear. Faith alone. Even to those who don’t turn from sin. Now should we turn from sin to please God and so his wrath does not abide on us here on this Earth. Yes. Whom God love the he chasteneth. Like a good Father should. I fear God so I try my best to turn from sin. But let’s face it. We come short everyday.

    Obama is a wicked man encouraging the murder of millions upon millions of unborn children and if you condone that and defend this evil man then you sir are part of the problem. You must have skipped Psalm 109 where David prays for much worse than just death upon his enemies. I suggest you stop reading this right now and pick up your Bible and read Psalm 109.

    Archeological historical evidence proves the churches Paul wrote to were actual buildings. I won’t stop you from ignoring facts.

    Here’s a clear verse that says repent from unbelief toward belief.

    Acts 20:21 King James Version (KJV)

    21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    You completely twist scripture when you say soulwinning is works salvation. That’s just preposterous and absolutely foolish.
    Works salvation is when a person is trusting in their OWN works to be saved. Not someone else’s works…..Most Old IFB at least understands what works salvation means. I see what you are trying to say that we are working to get someone saved. But this doesn’t fall into the works salvation category. Works salvation is the individual personal perception of doing good works to gain entry into Heaven. When we soulwin we plant the seed and God gives the increase.

    Name one thing that Bible college teaches you that you can’t just learn by reading the Bible or in Church?

    If they are selling anything which I believe Paul Wittenberg is just wanting to be compensated as a filmmaker, then I disagree with that. Then again no Church is perfect.

    Also can you present evidence of any of the New IFB Pastors condemning someone as unsaved because they merely left the congregation?

    Also can you give me one good reason to remove children from the Church congregation? I am not a father (yet) but I would never leave my children alone with anyone in this day and age. I also believe your Church is taking a huge risk in doing so as bad situations or false allegations could arise from this scenario. Just seems too risky to me. Why take that chance?

    I also, appreciate this conversation and mean no ill will toward you whatsoever. I look forward to hearing from you.

    God bless

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 26, 2018 - 2:54 pm)

      Your comments further expose how little you know about our beliefs. We do not believe God isnt the one who does the saving. We just believe we are his vessels to preach the Gospel.

      So would you say it only takes the Lord to save someone or It takes the Lord and the saved Christian to win someone to the Lord?

      I do believe we need to recognize we are sinners to be saved.

      So you believe we need to repent (change our mind) and believe we are sinners.

      I also believe we need to recognize we all deserve Hell. Otherwise why do we need a Savior right? But recognizing we are sinners and turning from all sin to be saved is completely different.

      Absolutely. But nobody actually teaches that. And repentance is not “turning from” anything. Didn’t you read my post above? repentance is changing your mind. It doesn’t involve doing anything.

      It’s pretty clear. Faith alone. Even to those who don’t turn from sin. Now should we turn from sin to please God and so his wrath does not abide on us here on this Earth. Yes. Whom God love the he chasteneth. Like a good Father should. I fear God so I try my best to turn from sin. But let’s face it. We come short everyday.

      All irrelevant. Neither of us claim you have to turn from your sins. Both of us claim you have to repent about sin, but then you and Pastor Anderson decry us for teaching it.

      Obama is a wicked man encouraging the murder of millions upon millions of unborn children and if you condone that and defend this evil man then you sir are part of the problem.

      Every person is wicked. But that is why we pray for their salvation. Around 50% of the USA also condones the murder of millions of children just like Obama does. I still want to see them saved. I don’t want them to go to hell. God even takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and wants all men to be saved. Bu the New IFB wants some to die unsaved. They don’t want them to be saved.

      You must have skipped Psalm 109 where David prays for much worse than just death upon his enemies. I suggest you stop reading this right now and pick up your Bible and read Psalm 109.

      Is everything done by an Old Testament saint correct practice for Christians today?

      Archeological historical evidence proves the churches Paul wrote to were actual buildings. I won’t stop you from ignoring facts.

      I don’t know if this is the case or not, I don’t think it would be possible to prove whose building it was, but that doesn’t matter. Archaeological evidence doesn’t trump the Bible. This is your argument?

      Name one thing that Bible college teaches you that you can’t just learn by reading the Bible or in Church?

      Nothing. nobody has made that claim. Is this all you have to argue that Bible colleges are wrong?

      Also can you present evidence of any of the New IFB Pastors condemning someone as unsaved because they merely left the congregation?

      Anderson declares those who he thinks are not saved and leave his church to be reprobates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ccUgDBC9M

      Also can you give me one good reason to remove children from the Church congregation? I am not a father (yet) but I would never leave my children alone with anyone in this day and age. I also believe your Church is taking a huge risk in doing so as bad situations or false allegations could arise from this scenario. Just seems too risky to me. Why take that chance?

      I am not going to promote removing children from the congregation, but I don’t think it is sinful as the New IFB teaches. I do think having an additional Sunday School service is beneficial because it gives children another opportunity to learn scripture and be trained by the older men as a good example. It allows them a good venue to receive the kind of training that the Pastoral Epistles encourage (And the same for the Older Women with the Younger) Obviously parents are the first trainers, and the Pastor and sermons are established by God, but why stop there? Can we not have other opportunities, like a Sunday School, or a Friday night Youth time where these young servants of God can be taught in the ways of God? And of course precautions must be taken, like at least two workers together with anyone – no one-on-one, too dangerous. Every case of problems comes from improper accountability and precautions not being followed.

      Having a nursery is also useful – my wife plays a violin in the church orchestra, and last week I had to do the sound ministry. Having a group of Godly women who could watch my daughter so we could both serve in the service is beneficial.

    John

    (October 26, 2018 - 5:09 pm)

    Joshua Lindsey
    So why go soulwinning or preach the Gospel if we play no part in ones salvation?

    Show me one verse that says you must change your mind about sin to be saved.

    Faith alone is clear. FAITH alone for salvation.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 26, 2018 - 5:50 pm)

      A person may not hear the gospel and choose to believe if we don’t tell them. Although it is possible that a person could read a book, watch a video, or read a Bible and be saved, it is more probable that they won’t do it unless we go and tell them. That doesn’t mean that we are participating in saving them, like Steven Anderson says, but it is still a responsibility God has told us to do.

      Not everyone believes they are a sinner. Many people think they are good enough. They think sin doesn’t matter. This was the Pharisees… they said that others were sinners, but not them. This was because they had the wrong view of sin. Just one sin makes you a sinner.

      So if you believe that a person must accept they are a sinner to be saved, most of that time the person will have to change their mind about sin.

      I will answer your questions, but only if you go back and answer mine first.

    John

    (October 26, 2018 - 6:38 pm)

    Change their mind about sin for salvation? That’s clearly works based salvation my friend. We are justified by grace through faith. Nothing more nothing less.

    Galatians 2:16 King James Version (KJV)

    16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    John 3:16-18 King James Version (KJV)

    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Faith alone.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 27, 2018 - 9:12 am)

      Ok, so you retract your position. You do not believe a person needs to understand they are a sinner to be saved. I believe that is a false gospel. It is certainly never what Baptists have taught.

      If you now believe changing your mind is works, I don’t think there is really any reasoning with you. The position is self defeating. One must change their mind about sin or they will never come to understand they are a sinner, and unless they understand that, they won’t accept salvation… just like the Pharisees didn’t.

    John

    (October 27, 2018 - 9:30 am)

    Let me be clear, you seem to have a hard time understanding.

    Plan of salvation
    1. Admit you are a sinner
    2. Believe you deserve Hell
    3. Believe that Jesus Christ died was buried and rose again and that he paid for all your sins past present and future.
    4. Believe that it’s faith alone not of works
    5. Believe that once you are saved you can’t lose your salvation no matter what you do.
    6. Confess to God with thy mouth what you believe.

    That’s it. You can admit you are a sinner without changing your mind or turning from sin. Plenty of people do. I have a cousin that is saved by grace through faith and he still lives a very worldly life and drinks, and smokes weed and what not. He’s still saved. He hasn’t changed his life at all. But he’s still saved. He understands we all sin and admits he’s a sinner, but he just chooses to continue living the way he always has.
    My Gospel is perfectly fine, it is you who is preaching we must change to be saved. That’s works bud.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 27, 2018 - 9:32 am)

      No, you want to believe two things that are not compatible. Many people don’t believe in the biblical concept of sin. Unless they change their minds about sin and recognize they really do have sin that will really send them to hell they won’t believe they are a sinner. How do you reconcile this?

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 27, 2018 - 9:33 am)

      Also, you are ridiculous to keep on mentioning so called turning from sin, as neither of us believe in that. This shows you are dishonest in your arguments.

    John

    (October 27, 2018 - 9:55 am)

    Show me one verse that says we must change our mind about sin for salvation.

    John

    (October 27, 2018 - 9:57 am)

    The biblical concept of sin is simple. Anytime God says not to do something and you do it. That is sin. Most people understand that.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 27, 2018 - 10:00 am)

      John, it is hard to believe that the New IFB is not just doing a 123 pray after me false salvation campaign where you don’t let the person get a word in, seeing you are so unfamiliar with common questions people have about sin and salvation!

      If a person tells you that they don’t believe there is any such thing as sin, how would you lead them to Christ?

      This person gives the same response that they don’t believe there us such a thing as sin when you tell them that they are a sinner.

    John

    (October 27, 2018 - 10:05 am)

    I just show them that the Bible says we are all sinners. People that are unsaved but believe the Bible understand we are all sinners after I show them. I rarely meet people that say they have no sin. When I do I just use tons of scripture showing we are all sinners. We have all told a lie right?

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 27, 2018 - 10:13 am)

      Well John, you really need to iron out your terminology then. Despite what you say, it is apparent you do ask that man to change his mind about sin. You want him to change his mind based on the Bible to then understand that sin is real, and that he is a sinner, and the way for his sin to be dealt with is through trusting Christ by faith alone. This is repentance. It is not a work.

        Leonard Allen

        (January 10, 2019 - 9:54 am)

        Not all people have told lies, though I do believe it is a small number that haven’t. If people don’t accept The Bible as authoritative where do you go in your gospel presentation?

    John

    (October 27, 2018 - 10:10 am)

    Joshua Lindsey
    I am a soulwinner Josh. I run into every situation imaginable. You have to use scripture to convince people. If they don’t believe what the Bible says to begin with, then I’ll just go through the plan of salvation anyway and plant a seed. God gives the increase. Matter a fact I’m going into the vineyard right now to win souls with a few guys from Church. I will have to continue this conversation later. We do not just do a 123 pray after me soulwinning program. We are very thourogh and we ask a lot of questions to make sure they clearly understand. I have spent up to 30 minutes and more at a door before. This isn’t a game to me, peoples souls are on the line here.

    Jordan

    (November 4, 2018 - 7:57 pm)

    I just want to make one comment about the necessity of a soul winner.
    the Gospel of John is in fact a Gospel tract, and in 20:31 we are told “But these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

    in most situations, it is most preferable to have someone explaining the Gospel to someone, but apparently according to the new IFB God messed up, seeing as how God had 4 Gospel tracts written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

    Joshua, I appreciate your pointing out the errors of the New IFB movement, it’s clear to me that the people of the NIFB thrive off of controversy, the spirit that is manifested by those like Anderson are very disturbing to me. To me it just seems like a bunch of people who want to feel like they are right and everyone else is wicked and wrong, seems rather to me to be a form of pride. And a lot of hypocrisy.

    For example, Steven Anderson preaches a whole message bashing on study Bibles, and commentaries, saying how believers only need the Holy Spirit and the word of God, but yet he posts videos of himself on youtube to teach other people in much the same way commentaries and studies bibles do. That is called hypocrisy. Steven Anderson should practice what he preaches and stop posting his ideas to youtube.

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