Warning: Sure Foundation Baptist Church North in Vancouver BC Canada preaches false New IFB teaching

Aaron Thompson and Sure Foundation Baptist Church in Vancouver Washington have now announced a new church plant in Vancouver, BC. Canada. The teaching here will be “New IFB” which is a compromising position against historic independent Baptist teaching.

Below are clips from the sermon where Thompson announced the new church plant.

What is the New IFB?

Steven L Anderson, leader of the New IFB movement

In 2005, Steven L Anderson started Faithful Word Baptist Church, and began teaching a new and strange set of doctrines. With his charismatic personality and boldness in preaching his opinions, as well as an effective social media strategy, he has won many over to himself. He is admittedly attempting to change what it means to be an Independent Fundamental Baptist. Many have caught on, but some are still being convinced by his errors.

In 2018, the churches that follow Anderson branded themselves as the New IFB. Each preacher follows in lockstep with Pastor Anderson, and if they don’t they risk being kicked out. When members leave Faithful Word Baptist Church, Anderson brands them not only as unsaved and going to hell, but also as “reprobate”, which in Anderson’s theology means that they cannot ever get saved. They are bound to go to hell without a chance to change that. Pastors who leave the movement or upset Anderson are blacklisted, all mention of them is purged from the New IFB denomination’s website, and pastors within the movement are encouraged to preach against them and post videos discrediting them and criticizing their preaching. Often the same pastors who once criticized others who left the new IFB find themselves also leaving the New IFB and receiving the same treatment.

So what does the New IFB believe? There are several unique beliefs that Anderson holds to, which, as a result are part of New IFB doctrine.

First, they preach another gospel than Independent Fundamental Baptists do.

  1. The New IFB preaches that Jesus death and resurrection was not enough to save from sin. Instead, Jesus had to go and burn in hell where he paid for our sin there. (So much for “it is finished!”)
  2. The New IFB preaches that for certain people, they are unsaved, regardless of their faith in Jesus Christ. In other words, for these people, salvation is not by grace through faith. See below:
Faithful Independent Baptists Teach: The New IFB teaches:
►The KJV is the preserved word of God in English ►Pastors who use the NIV are not saved
► You cannot get saved out of any Bible except the King James Version
►The Bible is sufficient for a person to learn about salvation and be saved Nobody can get saved by reading the Bible. There must be a soul winner. If that person themselves is not saved (such as a pastor who uses the NIV) none of their converts can truly be saved either
►Women should not be pastors ►Women who are preachers are all not saved
►Anyone who believes on Jesus Christ may be saved ►Homosexuals cannot believe on Christ and be saved. Salvation is not open for them, even if they leave homosexuality. Even if they believe on Christ, they will go to hell
Evolutionary scientists are also reprobate (they cannot be saved no matter what)
►Salvation is by faith alone ►If you leave the New IFB movement, you are not saved
► If you disagree with the New IFB movement, you are not saved

Second, the New IFB preaches many things as scriptural doctrine, which are not in the Bible, nor have been taught by Independent Fundamental Baptists in the past. These include:

  1. Being in the US Military is a Sin
  2. The police should not exist
  3. The 9/11 attacks were a hoax
  4. Christians should not vote
  5. It is sinful to be vaccinated
  6. The holocaust did not happen
  7. Israel should not exist
  8. Jews run everything and ruin everything
  9. We should rejoice in mass shootings or other murders when the victims are people we consider to be reprobates (such as homosexuals)
  10. We should pray for people to go to hell
  11. God laughs at sending people to hell
  12. People who get saved will not change
  13. People need not repent to be saved
  14. Charging interest is always sinful
  15. Having a nursery at a church is wrong
  16. Having Sunday School is wrong
  17. Jesus Christ is literally the King James Bible. The King James Bible is literally God.
  18. Bible College is unscriptural and wrong
  19. Christians are supposed to keep the Old Testament Law
  20. If you use the name “Yeshua” instead of Jesus, you aren’t saved
  21. Men being gynecologists is sinful and wicked
  22. The rapture is not imminent/ Christ cannot come at any time
  23. Any and all forms of birth control are sinful

Some of the root differences between the New IFB and Independent Baptists come from the fact that they believe in replacement theology, and so take the Old Testament Laws given to the nation of Israel and apply them to New Testament Believers today. (This is what Calvinist Covenant Theology does as well) As a result of this, any understanding of the Bible that divides the Bible into parts that are “for Christians today” and other parts that are “not for Christians today” are rejected. This leads to them calling for so-called “righteous government” to be established that mirrors the Theocracy of Israel, executing people for the same capital crimes, such as blasphemy, disobedience to parents, and homosexuality. They then reject any prophetic purpose for Jews or Israel, apply Old Testament “clean and unclean” laws on Christians, and end up with a post-tribulation Rapture.

Additionally, Steven Anderson and his followers use lots of crass language, say the Bible teaches that men should urinate standing up, and preach a lot of conspiracies (like chemtrails and water fluoridation conspiracies)

For an excellent and short presentation which shows the cultlike and non-Baptist nature of the New IFB and Steven Anderson, watch the video below:

Posted in Anti-Dispensationalism, Anti-Israel, Anti-Repentance, Conspiracy Theories, Holocaust Denial, New IFB Movement, Pre-Wrath Rapture, Sodomites and Salvation, Works Salvation | Tagged , , , , , , , , , | 39 Comments

Post Author: Joshua Lindsey

My name is Joshua Lindsey. I live in Minnesota, and with my wife and children am a faithful member of my local independent Baptist Church. I have taught Sunday School classes and children’s classes, and also had the opportunity to preach at several churches. I teach Bible college classes on the Pentateuch, Atheism and Faith, Chrsitian Denominations, Bible Preservation (A defense of the underlying texts of the KJV), Bible Geography and Customs, Church Graphic Design, and some others. My father is an Independent Baptist Pastor in Wisconsin, and I grew up in a home full of love for the Lord. My parents raised me in the Bible, and are faithful to this day in witnessing and discipling. Although I was constantly immersed in biblical teaching and preaching, I did not personally believe in Jesus as described in John 3:16 until my freshman year in Bible college. In the many years since then, I have grown in grace and the Lord has given me opportunity to serve him in ministry. Among other ministries, I run my church’s print shop and participate in door-to-door evangelism. In doctrine, I affirm the truth that has been passed down from church to church since the time of Christ. I affirm the deity of Christ, his death, burial, and bodily resurrection, the personhood of the Holy Spirit, the Trinity, the virgin birth, the inerrancy and infallibility of the scriptures, the inspiration and preservation of the scriptures, the imminent return of Christ and his future literal millennial reign. I accept the canonicity of the 66 books of scripture, I believe that God commands all men to repent, that Christ draws all men to himself, that any person can believe and be saved. I believe salvation cannot be forfeited or taken away. I believe Christ’s command to go to all the world and preach the Gospel is still applicable to us today. I believe in a future literal judgment seat of Christ and a Great white throne judgment. I believe that no person will enter heaven except through Jesus Christ. I reject all false religions: Islam, Judaism, new Age, etc. I reject the teaching that God elects some men to damnation, giving them no chance to be saved. I reject the idea that God did not preserve his words and that recent manuscript discoveries provide us with a more accurate Bible that was not available to past generations of Christians. I reject the concept of a universal church. I reject the idea that Baptism plays a part in salvation. I believe many things additionally not listed here. My views align with the scripture and with the beliefs that faithful churches have held since the time of Christ, and have held under the title of “Baptist” for many centuries now.

31 thoughts on “Warning: Sure Foundation Baptist Church North in Vancouver BC Canada preaches false New IFB teaching

    richard l sousa

    (September 20, 2018 - 7:42 pm)

    1. Matthew 24:30
    2. Malachi 3:6
    3. romans 10:9-17
    4. God, a perfect being repenting
    Jeremiah 18:8, 10
    Jonah 3:10
    Exodus 32:14
    Genesis 6:6
    Psalm 135:14
    Jeremiah 26:3, 13, 19
    Joel 2:14
    Amos 7:3-6 I’m sure just reading the bible you could find more.
    5. Romans 1 and Leviticus 20:13
    6. no one is denying the holocaust just saying the worlds view is a lie as Steven Anderson explains in your link.
    Matthew 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. (denial if the only name that can save you)
    Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

    This post is a lie. The bible doesn’t hide the real truth. God bless the New IFB!!!

      Joshua Lindsey

      (September 21, 2018 - 8:01 am)

      Sorry Richard, but your post looks just like a article on the Encyclopedia of Mormonism. They just list a chain of verses that they claim prove their doctrine, but they don’t. Anyone can do that.

        richard l sousa

        (September 22, 2018 - 8:12 am)

        Well if you were saved you would be able to understand scripture and would have known those are KJV bible scriptures from Gods perfect preserved word and God is never wrong.
        Funny you mentioned the false religion of Mormonism. Even they used more scripture than you did in this article to prove your point.
        Maybe you should listen to God and compare spiritual things with spiritual.
        1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

          Joshua Lindsey

          (September 22, 2018 - 8:23 am)

          Richard, declaring people unsaved because you disagree with them is what a babe in Christ does. Your comment shows a lack of understanding. I know the Bible is always right. But Richard Sousa’s misuse of the Bible and scripture twisting is not.

          So let us discuss my salvation. I believe that all men are sinners. I have sinned and come short of the glory of God. God demands that sinners pay with their lives for sin – eternal death in the lake of fire. But Christ died in our place, in my place so that I could through faith alone believe and trust in Him for eternal life, which I will never lose. I did so, and Gid promises that those who do so will never spiritually die.

          Now you disagree with this. You think I will spiritually die. Why is that?

    richard l sousa

    (September 22, 2018 - 2:13 pm)

    see the problem with what you just said is you contradict what you already said about salvation repentance. salvation repentance is works and anyone who believes on works salvation is not saved. so I am still right your not saved. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. also, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. and, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

    you say we twist scripture but in reality you just reject scripture so God blinds you from understanding.
    He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

    Believe in the right Gospel or you believe in a false gospel and are still unsaved. 100% Jesus and nothing else. no repentance because Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. breaking commandments and teaching men to do so is not repenting is it.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (September 22, 2018 - 3:06 pm)

      Can a person believe in Mohammed for salvation and still be saved? If they just add Jesus are they saved? Or must they repent of believing in Mohammed. I guess you think Muslims can add Jesus on top of Mohammed. No. The Bible tells us we must repent of the sin of trusting someone other than Christ. If you disagree, you don’t believe in trust in Jesus alone being a required for salvation.

        richard l sousa

        (September 23, 2018 - 7:11 am)

        I figured you would twist my words just like you did the bible. Is Mohammad a false gospel? try reading my last paragraph again. Believe in the right Gospel or you believe in a false gospel and are still unsaved. Look guy, you say repent of your sins which it never says to do in the bible. The bible uses the word repent for changing your mind just like God did in the book of Jonah. Repenting of your sins is impossible because no one can turn from all sin. If you are just explaining yourself wrong I understand but just like believing in Mohammad is a false gospel there are people that believe in repenting of all your sins and that is a works salvation and that would be saying Jesus was not enough. Obviously you have only one thing you can truly believe on and if its wrong you have to believe the right thing to make it which is lade out perfectly in Romans 10. Believe with the heart and confess with the mouth after it has been told to you. If your saying that is what you believe then take down this article because that is what we be believe and your doing nothing but vain jangling. Unless you just want to glorify yourself. if not then try using scripture to disprove us. start with your pre trib belief. prove your point with scripture.

          Joshua Lindsey

          (September 24, 2018 - 7:20 am)

          Richard, Is believing in a false Gospel sinful? Can you continue to believe in a false gospel and be saved? No, you must repent. Is worshipping an idol sinful? Can you continue to worship the idol and be saved? No you must repent.

          Your claim that anyone needs to turn away form sin is a straw man. I never said anything about “turn away” from”all sin.” that is just a position the New IFB rails against that isn’t taught by 95% of Baptists. I see you too have not done any research, just repeating what you’ve been brainwashed with.

            Richard l sousa

            (September 24, 2018 - 7:54 am)

            Actually no worshiping and idle does not mean you’re not saved it means you’re disobedient. Solomon, who worshipped many idols went to heaven. He didn’t just worship them he made them and put them on high. You see, all the things that I’ve been saying are backed by scripture which I keep on giving you but yet you have no scripture in any of your comments or in any of your posts. Only false prophets and wolf’s do that. Your Second paragraph makes no sense. My research? You just numbered a bunch of garbage you believe in what research would I have to do when you just told me what you believe in. You’re so delusional you believe in a pre-tribulation when Matthew 24:30 Jesus himself says he comes after the tribulation. Sounds to me like you’re the one not researching.

            Joshua Lindsey

            (September 24, 2018 - 8:06 am)

            Richard, I am glad you have at least formulated a consistent argument. Here it is: You reject that a person must believe in Christ alone for salvation. It is OK in your view for them to trust in idols too. I disagree. In that view, the catholic is saved who trusts in Christ + Mary + Works. But that is OK! You don’t believe in repentance!

            The Solomon example doesn’t work because that is an after-salvation case. And no reason to ramble on the tribulation etc. right now. We have a topic, let’s stick to it. It’s a dishonest method to jump around and try to avoid the question.

            Richard l sousa

            (September 24, 2018 - 4:34 pm)

            No what is dishonest is when I give you scripture from the Bible and you refuse to even read it and say that it sounds like Mormonism. What’s the dishonest is calling us all Heretics for preaching the wrong Doctrine without any proof or scripture. You’re the one beating around the bush you’re the one without nothing to prove your side. Quit being an idiot you don’t want to talk about tribulation because you know you’re wrong you don’t want to answer the Original Scriptures that I posted because you know they’re right and you’re wrong. You want to keep beating around the bush and pretend that we believe in work salvation when we teach the exact opposite, you’re a wolf. I really do hope your saved because if you’re not God’s going to deal harshly with you. Might even deal harshly with you now talking bad about his children I’ve answered your stupid vain jangling questions and I’m not answering any more you have the scripture I posted read it. Quit acting like a fool. Romans 1:22 says it best, Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. You are a fool.

            Joshua Lindsey

            (September 25, 2018 - 8:54 am)

            No what is dishonest is when I give you scripture from the Bible and you refuse to even read it and say that it sounds like Mormonism.

            I have read the scripture. They do not say what you claim they say. You misuse the Bible like Mormonism does.

            You said

            Quit being an idiot you don’t want to talk about tribulation because you know you’re wrong you don’t want to answer the Original Scriptures that I posted because you know they’re right and you’re wrong

            We can discuss the tribulation, but it’s not nearly as important as the false gospel that the New IFB teaches, and I won’t entertain it as a distraction technique so you can escape with your heresy.

            You said

            I really do hope your saved because if you’re not God’s going to deal harshly with you. Might even deal harshly with you now talking bad about his children I’ve answered your stupid vain jangling questions and I’m not answering any more you have the scripture I posted read it. Quit acting like a fool. Romans 1:22 says it best, Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. You are a fool.

            The reason you will not answer and consider the questions about salvation as “vain jangling” is because you believe a false gospel which you cannot biblically defend. I am not interested in your declarations on my salvation. I believe in salvation by faith without works. I don’t want “confirmation” from the New IFB which believes that you can trust an idol for salvation too and still be saved.

            Richard l sousa

            (September 25, 2018 - 9:57 am)

            First off I don’t believe you at all that you’ve read any of the scripture. If you have you deny what God says cuz I didn’t twist anything I just gave you a scripture to read and it says what it says. Tribulations only one of the many false doctrines you guys believe in. So don’t pretend that that some sort of decoy. You believe in a lot of phony garbage. You say I can’t biblically defend which I’ve given you scripture after scripture so therefore I have been biblically defending. You on the other hand still have yet to give one single scripture just like the wolves in the false prophets. You do the same thing that the Jews did to Jesus when he preached. You claim all these things that your movements been doing for years upon years or decades and then Jesus showed the Jews how they were wrong and they still denied him just like you do with us. You also twist my words like I believe in some sort of Idol when I was giving you examples of someone who was saved and went back to worshipping idols which means they never turned away from that sin. The Bible clearly shows that there are great people in heaven and least in Heaven the least did not turn from their sins the great did turn from their sins not all there since because that’s impossible. You keep rambling and do what you do it matters not. There’s a simple fact we’re helping people get saved by preaching the gospel the same gospel Jesus preached believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and call upon the name of the Lord and thou shall be saved Romans 10. We Don’t Preach turning from your sins like you do. You go ahead and you keep on getting angry that we’re doing more Works than you could possibly ever do. Doing those Works isn’t going to get us into heaven Believing on Jesus got us that now we do good works for him. You you make stupid little articles trying to keep people away from us and the gospel. I can see it right now but Lord I made all these articles and I went to Bible College and I taught people the pre tribulation how come I can’t come in and the Lord will say depart from me you worker of iniquity I never knew you.

            Joshua Lindsey

            (September 25, 2018 - 1:35 pm)

            First off I don’t believe you at all that you’ve read any of the scripture.

            This statement just shows how far off you are from reality. But I am glad you posted it. It shows you don’t care about truth, only to try to make an argument. But it isn’t an effective one.

            Tribulations only one of the many false doctrines you guys believe in.

            What? You don’t believe in the Tribulation period?

            You claim all these things that your movements been doing for years upon years or decades

            I don’t belong to any “movement.” I follow the Bible.

            You on the other hand still have yet to give one single scripture just like the wolves in the false prophets.

            This post is only here to expose. True Baptists know the scripture and will recognize your error on its face. I do plan to eventually post more material, but that takes time to prepare. You just spew a bunch of references that don’t say what you have claimed. You have posted no scripture that defends your point, and you have posted scripture that doesn’t, so you are certainly worse off than I am.

            There’s a simple fact we’re helping people get saved by preaching the gospel the same gospel Jesus preached believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and call upon the name of the Lord and thou shall be saved Romans 10. We Don’t Preach turning from your sins like you do.

            I don’t preach turn from your sins. You are a liar, Mr. Sousa. I have not lied about you, but you have lied about me.

            You go ahead and you keep on getting angry that we’re doing more Works than you could possibly ever do. Doing those Works isn’t going to get us into heaven

            There’s the New IFB pride folks! Puffed up with their works. Well, they are going to burn up like the wood, hay and stubble they are.

            You you make stupid little articles trying to keep people away from us and the gospel. I can see it right now but Lord I made all these articles and I went to Bible College and I taught people the pre tribulation how come I can’t come in and the Lord will say depart from me you worker of iniquity I never knew you.

            I have never boasted in my works. That is all that you have done. When I get to heaven, and if the Lord were to ask me why he should let me in, I would say “because you promised that all who believe in your son should not perish.” I have that belief, that trust. Mr. Sousa, you have been dishonest. You say things about me and claim I believe or do things I do not believe or do. I have only exposed what you believe, and you cannot defend it.

            Defend your gospel that says that a person can trust in Jesus Christ + Idols and be saved! You cannot with scripture.

            If you have the Bible behind you, focus on the scripture. you claim to have scripture, but all you can focus on is a person. You are obsessed with the person. In fact, your next comment will no doubt be about the person. Don’t do it! Talk about doctrine!

            Here’s the truth. The very verse you try to use refutes your position: Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 

            Those who claim they were trusting in something other than Christ to save them will not enter heaven. If someone trusts an idol in addition to Christ for salvation, they will not be in heaven. That false gospel is what I rebuke.

            Richard l sousa

            (September 25, 2018 - 8:09 pm)

            This statement just shows how far off you are from reality. But I am glad you posted it. It shows you don’t care about truth, only to try to make an argument. But it isn’t an effective one.

            no it just shows that I don’t believe you. I believe Jesus.

            What? You don’t believe in the Tribulation period?

            Another twisting of what I said especially after I gave you Matthew 24 twice.

            I don’t belong to any “movement.” I follow the Bible.

            Really, because I’m pretty sure that you claimed old ifb or else this and all the other post you post are lies.

            This post is only here to expose. True Baptists know the scripture and will recognize your error on its face. I do plan to eventually post more material, but that takes time to prepare. You just spew a bunch of references that don’t say what you have claimed. You have posted no scripture that defends your point, and you have posted scripture that doesn’t, so you are certainly worse off than I am.

            Hahaha even in the Bible it says to use scripture. true Baptist? Most Baptist that claim to be Baptist haven’t even read the Bible once through they profess ourselves to be wise after going to Bible College and getting man’s knowledge versus reading the Bible for their selves. There are Believers out there that’ll never picked up a Bible as well. Your view of TRUE BAPTIST doesnt match with mine.

            I don’t preach turn from your sins. You are a liar, Mr. Sousa. I have not lied about you, but you have lied about me.

            Really here’s a quote you said a couple post back,
            No. The Bible tells us we must repent of the sin 

            changing your belief to the correct belief is correct, but Several kings including Nebuchadnezzar who forced people to worship his idol got saved. Some worshiped idols after getting saved like Saul who was saved. That is all I’m saying. If they went back to worshipping idols did they truely repent from that sin? God gave us Jesus because he knew we could not repent of our sins.

            There’s the New IFB pride folks! Puffed up with their works. Well, they are going to burn up like the wood, hay and stubble they are.

            Really? Because my sentance said that those works would NOT get us into heaven. read James faith without works is dead. Do something with yourself and help get people saved or you’re a dead Christian. Its pretty easy to read and understand that.

            If someone trusts an idol in addition to Christ for salvation, they will not be in heaven.

            I agree, but if you return to doing that after you have believed it is called backsliding. Like I have pointed out. Backsliding is returning to a sin. As you pointed out worship of idols is a sin. If you believed, got saved, and started backsliding or questioning your faith you still cant get unsaved. No man can be plucked from his hand. I would however expose and remove that type of person from the church until they got their head right.

            Maybe I am not explaining myself correctly, I admit I am not great with words so here is the bible and this is what I believe. Nothing more and nothing less.

            That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
            Romans 10:9‭-‬17 kjv

            If you agree then we believe the same and this conversation is closed. If you don’t, you don’t believe the bible or God.

            Joshua Lindsey

            (September 26, 2018 - 8:50 am)

            Here is what you said, Mr. Sousa. Your very words. I didn’t twist anything:

            I didn’t twist anything I just gave you a scripture to read and it says what it says. Tribulations only one of the many false doctrines you guys believe in. So don’t pretend that that some sort of decoy.

            So when you say that I twisted your words, that is lie #1 in your last comment.

            Earlier you wrote “First off I don’t believe you at all that you’ve read any of the scripture.” In response, I said “This statement just shows how far off you are from reality. But I am glad you posted it. It shows you don’t care about truth, only to try to make an argument. But it isn’t an effective one.” You now have responded by saying “no it just shows that I don’t believe you. I believe Jesus.” This doesn’t make sense. Jesus did not take any position on whether I have read the scripture. Again you show how you are nonsensical. I can’t reason with someone who can’t put together a defense of their position.

            Really, because I’m pretty sure that you claimed old ifb or else this and all the other post you post are lies.

            There is no such thing as “Old IFB.” That is a term made up by the New IFB movement. The true churches that Christ founded are not a movement, nor a denomination. “I” in “IFB” stands for independent. That is not a movement. “F” stands for fundamental” also not a movement. “B” is Baptist, which is a descriptor, also not a movement. You are part of a movement, I am not.

            Really here’s a quote you said a couple post back,
            No. The Bible tells us we must repent of the sin

            First, Mr. Sousa, that is not what I have said, Lie #2 You can’t cut someone’s sentence off in the middle. Here is what I said: “The Bible tells us we must repent of the sin of trusting someone other than Christ.”

            Now, where in that sentence did I say turn from sins? Do you believe “turn from” means the same thing as “repent”? Because I don’t and neither does the New IFB. But it seems you do think that they are the same. I also listed a specific sin, and you claim “sins” which is obviously broader and different.

            changing your belief to the correct belief is correct

            Now you are starting to get it! You accept repentance! We are making progress.

            changing your belief to the correct belief is correct, but Several kings including Nebuchadnezzar who forced people to worship his idol got saved. Some worshiped idols after getting saved like Saul who was saved. That is all I’m saying. If they went back to worshipping idols did they truely repent from that sin? God gave us Jesus because he knew we could not repent of our sins.

            That isn’t all you have said. I asked if you could worship an idol and get saved, and you defended that position. You defended a position that is opposite to “Christ alone.” If you want to change your position, please do, but don’t say you never held it.

            There’s the New IFB pride folks! Puffed up with their works. Well, they are going to burn up like the wood, hay and stubble they are.

            Really? Because my sentance said that those works would NOT get us into heaven. read James faith without works is dead. Do something with yourself and help get people saved or you’re a dead Christian. Its pretty easy to read and understand that.

            You miss the point. The point is not that you are trusting your good works to be saved, it is that you are like the Pharisees, waving your works around in front of men. You have your reward. Assuming you are saved, when you get to heaven, all those works you wave around in front of men won’t produce reward, they will burn up like wood, hay, and stubble.

            If someone trusts an idol in addition to Christ for salvation, they will not be in heaven.
            I agree, but if you return to doing that after you have believed it is called backsliding. Like I have pointed out. Backsliding is returning to a sin. As you pointed out worship of idols is a sin. If you believed, got saved, and started backsliding or questioning your faith you still cant get unsaved. No man can be plucked from his hand. I would however expose and remove that type of person from the church until they got their head right.

            I am sorry, but you are wrong. A person can’t backslide from true Christianity into trusting works or false gods for salvation. Solomon may have worshiped idols, but if he was truly saved at the time, he was still trusting the messiah. No matter who you are, if you aren’t trusting Christ alone, you won’t make it to heaven. A person who truly gets saved won’t stop trusting in Christ alone.

            If you agree then we believe the same and this conversation is closed. If you don’t, you don’t believe the bible or God.

            Yes, if we agree than we are done. Here are the points:

            – A person does have to repent from trusting idols for salvation (for example) and trust Christ alone to be saved.
            – You are wrong to question a person’s salvation like you have here when I have stated the correct, Biblical way I know I am going to heaven. Your original comments tried to use works to show I am not saved, which appears that you are trying to show a works salvation. I don’t believe you actually think that way, so your argument was heretical and wrong.

            -We can continue to disagree on the other points regarding the New IFB. Your comment is still there for people to see your verses. I contend that they don’t prove your points, but later viewers of this post can read them and see.

            Richard l sousa

            (September 26, 2018 - 2:04 pm)

            Tribulations only one of the many false doctrines you guys 

            So your pointing out that I didn’t type in the word pre at the beginning of the sentence. Ok, so what complain about a typo. Still, not a lie. This is also a typo that you did but I didn’t get petty about it like your doing.
             I did so, and Gid promises that those who do so will never spiritually die.

            There is no such thing as “Old IFB.” That is a term made up by the New IFB movement. The true churches that Christ founded are not a movement, nor a denomination. “I” in “IFB” stands for independent. That is not a movement. “F” stands for fundamental” also not a movement. “B” is Baptist, which is a descriptor, also not a movement. You are part of a movement, I am not.

            If its ifb it’s independent movement or not a movement your being petty using that as a point. It’s called new because you guys preach false doctrine and we dont want to be mixed up with you. So to be clear you are of the old IFB because your not apart of the true teaching. I really dont care if we are called old new green yellow. Just as long as people know we dont believe in garbage like, PRE TRIBULATION. A saved man can read Matthew 24 and clearly understand its teaching Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation.
            Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

             Do you believe “turn from” means the same thing as “repent”?

            No I don’t I thought you did and that is what I was pointing out. It means change of mind.
            And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
            Jonah 3:10 KJV

            Now you are starting to get it! 

            No, I always had it. Now your starting to listen to what I have been saying.

            I asked if you could worship an idol and get saved, and you defended that position.

            No, I said this at the beginning of the conversation and stuck to it. Believe in the right Gospel or you believe in a false gospel and are still unsaved. 100% Jesus and nothing else. 

            I explained what repentance was not by finishing up with scripture. no repentance because Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. breaking commandments and teaching men to do so is not repenting is it. repentance not repenting. Another typo I guess you got me there mr. Petty.
            I continued to explain the differance in the (September 23, 2018 – 7:11 am) post and you continued to attack and be petty
            Richard, Is believing in a false Gospel sinful? 
            You know darn well what I said it was as simple as reading the bible.
            (September 24, 2018 – 7:54 )
            This is where you think I believe in idol worship. I pointed out it did not necessarily mean you were not saved by using Solomon as an example. I also used Nebuchadnezzar and saul as examples. They believed but then worshipped idols. Never in all of what I said did I say that was added to salvation. I always pointed out 100% Jesus and nothing else. John 3:16 3:18 acts 16:31 Roman’s 10:9-13 and so much more.

            You miss the point. The point is not that you are trusting your good works to be saved, it is that you are like the Pharisees,

            No you missed the point I was being a Paul and trying to get you to wake up and do some works instead if all this petty he said she said nonsense. You’re arguing and pointing out differences and beliefs that have nothing to do with the gospel in most of your posts is petty. And God uses meat and vegetables as an example of that. Romans 14:2-3
            For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

            A person who truly gets saved won’t stop trusting in Christ alone.

            No, that is adding works. That is calling God a liar and saying salvation is not forever. Saying man can be plucked from his hand. I reject that. Solomon did that exact thing and went to heaven. This is the part we disagree. Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
            God cant lie and he promised eternal life.

            Joshua Lindsey

            (September 30, 2018 - 2:04 pm)

            Richard,

            I am sorry but I can’t understand most of your post. Also, apparently everything you say is either you claiming I believe something, and having to backtrack and then blaming me for it when you are found to have lied, or you saying something and then claiming it was a misspelling or misstatement. Look, doctrine is a precise, fine thing, and if you can’t help but actually type heresies, maybe you should leave the defense to someone else.

            I will address your last statement. If you think the statement that someone who truly gets saved won’t stop trusting in Christ alone is works salvation, then you had better get out of the New IFB too, because they preach works salvation. It’s funny that the biggest thing you seem to disagree with me about is one where the New IFB agrees with me.

            Here is what they teach, and I agree:

            Matthew Stucky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0EaTqG9kc0
            Steven Anderson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezeWpLJa0M
            Steven Anderson 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM1BDr0KfnI

            Now you should condemn them as works-salvation teachers, because I agree entirely with them on that. If you agree with them, you should apologize to me for claiming it is works salvation.

            richard l sousa

            (September 30, 2018 - 10:18 pm)

            you are the biggest lier lol Im done with you and your claims. everything you have said is backwards and I don’t have to dispute it at all because any saved Christian can see it. so long wolf. God has been growing our church pretty fast so you better think of a different way to teach your false doctrine before they all run to our churches. ta ta

            Joshua Lindsey

            (October 1, 2018 - 7:31 am)

            There is is. Richard Sousa will say all he can until he realizes he has to speak up against his idol, Steven L Anderson. Then he just tries to quietly sneak out the back door with his disproved arguments.

            We will just leave this thread of comments here so all can see how you pretend to care about the scriptures until you find them inconvenient.

            Richard l sousa

            (October 1, 2018 - 6:42 pm)

            Steve Anderson isn’t my idol but he is a good man unlike you trying to be a wolf but anybody who reads these posts will know that you are. Please do keep these up I want everybody to see them in fact you can post these anywhere you want. Just because you called me a liar doesn’t mean I am and if you read these posts you’ll see that you are the liar and that I’ve been telling the truth the entire time if you read the Bible you’ll get the same thing you’re a wolf and a loser

            Joshua Lindsey

            (October 1, 2018 - 7:13 pm)

            Steven Anderson and I agree that you can’t stop believing once you are saved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezeWpLJa0M
            Richard Sousa thinks this is works salvation.

            Richard Lee Sousa

            (October 1, 2018 - 7:24 pm)

            Well I guess the Bible’s lying when Solomon was clearly saved and went in and worship idols and put them on the highest mountain. Look you can twist it however you want Solomon, neberkenezer, Saul, and many other kings and Nations got saved and then worship idols which is not trusting in Jesus alone. At one time all of them believed in Jesus alone. But they all fell short of the glory of God just like everybody. If the Bible says it, it’s true and the Bible says all the above so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

            Joshua Lindsey

            (October 1, 2018 - 7:28 pm)

            Nobody, including those mentioned in your post, has believed in Christ for salvation and stopped believing.

            Steven Anderson and I agree that you can’t stop believing once you are saved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezeWpLJa0M
            Richard Sousa thinks this is works salvation.

    Richard Lee Sousa

    (October 1, 2018 - 7:26 pm)

    By the way you just commented that you believe everything that they said in that video. So you believe exactly like Steve Anderson and all the rest of those people that you posted up above. So now you’re confirming that their brothers in Christ. Yet you are unforgiving and causing strife among your Brothers by putting posts like this up. I guess you can’t be forgiven since you haven’t forgiven them.

      Joshua Lindsey

      (October 1, 2018 - 7:30 pm)

      Richard, poor doctrine has led you to poor logic. Because I agree with Anderson on one sermon does not mean I believe him on everything else. Let’s see your logic below:

      By the way you just commented that you believe everything that they said in that video. So you believe exactly like Steve Anderson and all the rest of those people that you posted up above.

      Your logic: If you agree with a person on one thing, you believe exactly like them on everything.

      So now you’re confirming that their brothers in Christ.

      Your logic: If you agree with a person on one thing, they are saved and so are you.

      Richard, think before you post!

        Richard Lee Sousa

        (October 1, 2018 - 7:35 pm)

        Wrong again that’s not my logic I said you agreed with them on salvation. If you agree with them on salvation then you believe that they are saved as well. Which makes them your brother.
        Again just like a wolf you trying to twist what I say just like you do with the Bible.

          Joshua Lindsey

          (October 1, 2018 - 7:37 pm)

          Richard, read your own comment. You didn’t even use the word “Salvation.” And nowhere did I ever state that I agree with them on salvation. I said I agree with the video, which touches on a very narrow part of salvation – the part you disagree with.

          Steven Anderson and I agree that you can’t stop believing once you are saved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezeWpLJa0M
          Richard Sousa thinks this is works salvation.

            Richard Lee Sousa

            (October 1, 2018 - 7:46 pm)

            Joshua, first off I don’t believe everything that Steven Anderson believes a majority of it I do but I read the Bible daily in season out of season here a little there a little. I also have my own pastor I don’t need Steve Anderson to guide me because I have my own Pastor to guide me so you showing videos of Steve Anderson and other people like Matthew Stuckey doesn’t do anything. Second Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. You really know how to show your fruits, and they are no good.

            Joshua Lindsey

            (October 1, 2018 - 8:02 pm)

            Richard,
            I don’t go on blogs online to defend people who believe in works salvation. The fact you do come here and defend Steven Anderson when you think he teaches a works salvation means that you lack integrity in spiritual matters.

            That is a great verse. I have marked and avoided Anderson for his false teaching.

            Richard Lee Sousa

            (October 1, 2018 - 8:17 pm)

            And I have marked and avoided you for your faults teachings you heretic. Now if you dont mind you are cutting into my bible reading.

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